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Post by agsh on Oct 21, 2023 8:25:04 GMT -5
Have asked question about retopo before. But realized maybe still haven't done it right later. Tried to retopo a simple shirt and watched several tutorials about retopo. Feels like maybe I learned some about retopo but not sure whether I have done it in right way. Garment in MD and internal lines I draw for retoporetopo of the same garment. All quads.I may learned things a bit slow. Thanks for the effort that staff spent in helping me. Hope my skill can developed to the level that I can answer other creator's questions.  |
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Post by mauvemorn on Oct 21, 2023 15:56:00 GMT -5
Hi. The first link does not work It looks like you're retopologizing wrinkles on a sleeve. If that is the case, then that is absolutely not what you should be doing Basically, manually you want to do as little as possible. You just want to dictate the edge flow. Then you subdivide the mesh and its done. All those fine details like wrinkles should be preserved through textures, not geometry. Big fold should be preserved through geometry, but there can be no such thing on a small sleeve like that, so you should not be doing it This is what i mean On the right side of the body is a simple efficient edge flow that you create manually On the left side is what it becomes after subdividing  - download this md file and open; - switch to the retopology mode and try to recreate this edge flow on the left side of the body; - start from the sleeve. Choose Patch topology, change Subdivisions to 6, draw the line at the top, then change the number to 9, go down, change to 6 again, draw, change to 9, finish the pattern Create; - it would be best to adjust the second loop from the top to follow the shape of the bicep in 3D view. This is the point, you match the shape of the body, you do not do this blindly in 2D view; - add one edge loop here because the shoulder needs extra definition;
-move to the front pattern. Create a shape like this, 3 x 6; - move these two edges;
- connect them - fill in this side - then the top - use patch topology to add the bottom - now you go in 3d view and move vertices to follow the shape of the body and be spaced more or less evenly where they need to be. Once you figure out how it should be, you can just model everything in 3d view (beside sleeves);
- do the back using the same logic - once happy, subdivide all patterns; - lower particle distance and simulate the garment, export this garment as high poly version; - apply the new topology, without simulation export this as low poly version
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Post by agsh on Oct 22, 2023 0:39:54 GMT -5
Hi. The first link does not work It looks like you're retopologizing wrinkles on a sleeve. If that is the case, then that is absolutely not what you should be doing Basically, manually you want to do as little as possible. You just want to dictate the edge flow. Then you subdivide the mesh and its done. All those fine details like wrinkles should be preserved through textures, not geometry. Big fold should be preserved through geometry, but there can be no such thing on a small sleeve like that, so you should not be doing it This is what i mean On the right side of the body is a simple efficient edge flow that you create manually On the left side is what it becomes after subdividing - download this md file and open; - switch to the retopology mode and try to recreate this edge flow on the left side of the body; - start from the sleeve. Choose Patch topology, change Subdivisions to 6, draw the line at the top, then change the number to 9, go down, change to 6 again, draw, change to 9, finish the pattern Create; - it would be best to adjust the second loop from the top to follow the shape of the bicep in 3D view. This is the point, you match the shape of the body, you do not do this blindly in 2D view; - add one edge loop here because the shoulder needs extra definition;
-move to the front pattern. Create a shape like this, 3 x 6; - move these two edges;
- connect them - fill in this side - then the top - use patch topology to add the bottom - now you go in 3d view and move vertices to follow the shape of the body and be spaced more or less evenly where they need to be. Once you figure out how it should be, you can just model everything in 3d view (beside sleeves);
- do the back using the same logic - once happy, subdivide all patterns; - lower particle distance and simulate the garment, export this garment as high poly version; - apply the new topology, without simulation export this as low poly version
Thanks for your file and detailed explanations! Failed to follow the start from sleeve's step. Set subdivisions to 6 but it doesn't follow the shape of the selves. Tried to set subdivisions to 1 and click 6 times(To manually make it follow the shape of pattern) then go down click 9 times then go left click 6 times, go up click 9 times. Then create the shape but the MD failed to create one. Also tried to personally practice it in other patterns. But sometimes the path topo won't follow the shape of patterns. Reupload the first file:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YimpJ8dnvRrrPDar9fC6H5RzBdWZGITI/view?usp=sharing Not sure whether it counts as big wrinkles. |
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Post by mauvemorn on Oct 22, 2023 4:30:49 GMT -5
You need to move the cursor along the border of the patter for the line to follow the shape.
Do not do what you did, it is the wrong way of using this tool
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Post by agsh on Oct 26, 2023 8:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by mauvemorn on Oct 26, 2023 9:02:47 GMT -5
missed shoulder related steps you need extra definition in this area
as for your garment, you should have not made those intricate borders in the chest areas. First, you have these overlapping layers. Second, it is difficult to make topology connect between patterns, which is something you have not done at all. If these patterns wont connect, there will be gaps along borders It would be easier to retopologize this mesh in blender because of those thin patterns
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Post by agsh on Oct 28, 2023 8:15:21 GMT -5
missed shoulder related steps you need extra definition in this area
as for your garment, you should have not made those intricate borders in the chest areas. First, you have these overlapping layers. Second, it is difficult to make topology connect between patterns, which is something you have not done at all. If these patterns wont connect, there will be gaps along borders It would be easier to retopologize this mesh in blender because of those thin patterns
Have watched a sims retopo tutorials. It used zbrush zremesh the patterns then transfer data in blender. Have made most of topology connect patterns. Since deleted some details of topology for making topology connect patterns. Not sure whether these details can go back when back normal and not sure whether the retopo is in right track. blender: drive.google.com/file/d/1nrSaVgT5wTJvP5UmF1l6BEkJkYfoT0OP/view?usp=sharing |
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Post by mauvemorn on Oct 28, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -5
You need to export the garment as weld from md, see how there are gaps along pattern borders?
Also see how unreasonable the density of the wireframe is in in some places? So many faces on the back pattern where there are no details, yet the folds on the skirt arent smooth. 20K tris and for what? This is why i do not recommend zbrush anymore
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Post by agsh on Oct 31, 2023 7:42:12 GMT -5
You need to export the garment as weld from md, see how there are gaps along pattern borders? Also see how unreasonable the density of the wireframe is in in some places? So many faces on the back pattern where there are no details, yet the folds on the skirt arent smooth. 20K tris and for what? This is why i do not recommend zbrush anymore Studied about how to retopo in blender. Feel like maybe the only way to get a good result is to retopo manually (start from building one quad then gradually use quads to build the shape of garment. If I understand right). A bit lazy and wanted to try a easier way. Feel easier to retopo in MD so changed to MD (embarrassed about lazy but can't help to be lazy :(. If still not doing good in MD will retopo in blender manually.) MD:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qOPsdRWLKf13iLQ02gCtmUfjJcGShGRc/view?usp=sharing I feel my retopo this time is better than before! Preview of MD retopo. Not sure whether the retopo of puff is alright. Since not sure about it so haven't made patterns borders connected with each other. Have used zbrush retopo result for reference. But feel like EA's retopo logic is different fron this. Reduce the density of back patterns. But not sure how to connect the borders with from pattern. Studied EA's mesh. It front and back pattern seems have similar quads in borders. As for the retopo of dress. I want to add more subdivision but not sure whether the overall retopo is alright now. Since can't withdraw subdivision so decided to not add it before making sure the retopo is in right track. |
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Post by mauvemorn on Oct 31, 2023 8:58:57 GMT -5
Yes, it looks better now.
As for those unconnected patterns in the front, its fine. There are patterns underneath, so that is what will be visible instead of a gap
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Post by agsh on Nov 3, 2023 7:17:58 GMT -5
Yes, it looks better now. As for those unconnected patterns in the front, its fine. There are patterns underneath, so that is what will be visible instead of a gap Add subdivision to the back and some patterns bcs there are clipping when replace typology. Hard to fix even increase collision. Also some patterns seem lose too much details so add extra subdivision. Not sure whether I do it right. Tried to bake from high to low in Blender but failed. Have do some easy test to bake from high to low. But still always failed when bake my garment. BlenderMD |
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Post by mauvemorn on Nov 3, 2023 8:03:23 GMT -5
Low and high poly meshes must be of the same overall shape, just with different level of details. In your case, on the low poly version the frills have different length and are simulated differently. You cannot bake normals in this situation because there is too much distance between the two. Small differences are fine and, if not baked properly right away, can be fixed with Extrusion setting. You must not simulate the mesh after applying retopology. You're meant to do it like this ( if in md ): - lower particle distance on a mesh, simulate it to get a good looking result; - retopologize the mesh without applying topology; - export the high poly version; - apply the retopology and export a low poly version without simulation.
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Post by agsh on Nov 3, 2023 9:03:42 GMT -5
Low and high poly meshes must be of the same overall shape, just with different level of details. In your case, on the low poly version the frills have different length and are simulated differently. You cannot bake normals in this situation because there is too much distance between the two. Small differences are fine and, if not baked properly right away, can be fixed with Extrusion setting. You must not simulate the mesh after applying retopology. You're meant to do it like this ( if in md ): - lower particle distance on a mesh, simulate it to get a good looking result; - retopologize the mesh without applying topology; - export the high poly version; - apply the retopology and export a low poly version without simulation.
From my understanding. I feel your suggestions means export low particle distance garment(without retopo) and export retopo garment without simulation. There is one part makes me confused. After applying the retopo. The garment has clipping and gaps between patterns. Like this. I am not sure how to fix it without simulation or it doesn't matter? Or it happened bcs my retopo is not nice enough? In case MD file is needed so attached it. MD |
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Post by mauvemorn on Nov 3, 2023 12:17:34 GMT -5
You're going to delete all areas of the body the garment covers, so clipping is not a concern when you create new topology on borders, those black dots are created on patterns connected to them. You're meant to use these black dots as a guide when retopologizing connected patterns. Then there will not gaps ( or not big enough for MD to be unable to weld upon export)  This is something for you to keep in mind in the future, though. Now do this: - export the garment as weld; - import into the scene, in edit mode select everything with A, Select - Select loops - Select boundary loops; - Mesh - Merge - By distance, increase the number to 0.002; - Select everything again, Select - Select loops - Select boundary loops; - Edge - Mark sharp; - enable Snapping to vertex; - zoom onto every area where you see marked edges between the patterns, either snap vertices together or dissolve unnecessary ones;   - once done, remove doubles with 0.0001 on the whole mesh |
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Post by agsh on Nov 4, 2023 6:09:13 GMT -5
You're going to delete all areas of the body the garment covers, so clipping is not a concern when you create new topology on borders, those black dots are created on patterns connected to them. You're meant to use these black dots as a guide when retopologizing connected patterns. Then there will not gaps ( or not big enough for MD to be unable to weld upon export) This is something for you to keep in mind in the future, though. Now do this: - export the garment as weld; - import into the scene, in edit mode select everything with A, Select - Select loops - Select boundary loops; - Mesh - Merge - By distance, increase the number to 0.002; - Select everything again, Select - Select loops - Select boundary loops; - Edge - Mark sharp; - enable Snapping to vertex; - zoom onto every area where you see marked edges between the patterns, either snap vertices together or dissolve unnecessary ones; - once done, remove doubles with 0.0001 on the whole mesh Thanks for your reply! I have followed the black dots to retopo. But I feel sometimes the black dots are not accurate. The bottom parts of seelves are hard to see when there are plenty of topology. I seem haven't found a way to hide unnecessary retopo. I have fixed the most of gaps and decided to test bake from high to low. But the result is still bad. Blender |
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